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Patton Machine Throttle Body Injection

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  • Patton Machine Throttle Body Injection

    Hi,
    Does anyone have first-hand experience with the Patton Machine Throttle Body Injection system on a TR6? I hate the two Stromberg carbs on my '71 and am looking for better starting, increased reliability, smoother running and improved gas mileage. If it makes any difference my car has several performance enhancements including, increased compression, mildly modified cam, custom dual exhaust and Supra 5-speed transmission. My questions are:
    Will I get positive results based on my list of desired improvements and is it possible for a fair backyard mechanic without specialized tools to do the installation? Once installed I would take it to a Dyno guy for final tuning.

  • #2
    Check out Bob Danielsons website. Just google Bob Danielson Triumph TR6. He’s had very good success and was an early adopter. Others will jump in as well.

    Cheers
    Tush
    81 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, 81 Triumph TR8
    73 Triumph TR6 CF4874UO, 68 Triumph TR250 CD5228LO
    62 Triumph TR4 CT6716LO, 60 Triumph TR3A TS69891LO
    60 Triumph TR3A TS64870LO, 59 Triumph TR3A TS44836LO

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    • #3
      One would argue (including myself) that the ZS Strombergs are very reliable.....your arguments regarding starting, reliability and smoother running will not necessarily be better with EFI. There are other factors that contribute to this behaviour such as the camshaft, ignition and overall condition of your engine.
      I did the conversion from ZS Stromberg to EFI. Anything in between such as modifying the ZS with Injection or even the SUs with Injection is just not the real deal. You need to get yourself familiar with the EFI Software. You need to understand featues such as EGO Loop, going from Cranking, Warmup, After Start Enrichment, to Fuel tables, Correction factors...etc. etc....Dyno Tuning gives you a Fueltable and Ignition Table. Everything else needs to be done on the road. Datalogging, analyzing, driving, Logging, adjusting...etc. etc. If you are not interested in the details and you want a plug and play system....just stick with your ZS Strombergs. They are a lot easier to maintain and understand and I had them to 145 BHP.....just my opinion.

      Jochem
      (EFI with PI TBs, ECU: Ecumaster Black)
      Last edited by JochemsTR; 04-24-2019, 01:16 AM.
      Flying Dutchman drives: TR6 - 1973 - 56/11 - CF1xxxxUO - J-OD - Kent 280° - EMU Black - Phoenix - 205/70 on 7x15

      Comment


      • #4
        If you pack your Zenith-Stromberg carburetors in a USPS pre-priced box and send them to poolboy, along with a check for the required inexpensive amount, you will get them returned to you in a condition that you will be very pleased with.
        You will change your tune about Z-S carbs, for sure.
        Ask any of the multitude of happy recipients of this man's skilled (& extremely reasonable) service, myself included.
        Last edited by SapphireBlue72; 04-24-2019, 07:52 AM.
        Walt
        CC80954U '72 TR6 original condition/sold 16.500.
        poolboy rebuilt the Z-S Carbs. Philstr6 rebuilt both rear hubs.

        Comment


        • poolboy
          poolboy commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks,Walt.

      • #5
        Originally posted by SapphireBlue72 View Post
        If you pack your Zenith-Stromberg carburetors in a USPS pre-priced box and send them to poolboy, along with a check for the required inexpensive amount, you will get them returned to you in a condition that you will be very pleased with.
        You will change your tune about Z-S carbs, for sure.
        Ask any of the multitude of happy recipients of this man's skilled (& extremely reasonable) service, myself included.
        +1. Don’t have many problems with my ZS’s and Ken is the master at refurbishing them. Bet he’ll find and fix the source of you aggravation for way less money and complication than the kit.
        I72 Pimento w/overdrive

        Comment


        • #6
          And thank you, too, Lou.
          I think Rick Patton has adopted the attitude that if you can't get your engine to run properly with proper ZS carbs, you can't expect his TBI kit to work miracles.
          I've been putting forth that message myself concerning the carbs I rebuild...I can provide rebuilt carbs, baseline tuned and adjusted; but the rest is dependent upon the owner to see to it that the engine is in respectable condition, ignition properly tuned, emissions intact or thoughtfully modified, and the carbs properly installed.
          And for those frustrated and express 'hate' for ZS carbs, I've said it before and I'll say it again 'you can not compensate for perished carb components with carb adjustments'.
          Last edited by poolboy; 04-24-2019, 09:28 AM.
          Driving a 1973 TR6
          Doing ZS carb repairs
          email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

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          • #7
            I've got the Patton TBI set up and really like it. Starts instantly in all weather conditions, no black soot out the tailpipe, no exhaust fumes in the cabin.
            No noticeable increase in power, but runs very smooth in all situations. I have not had to touch or adjust anything once I initially set it all up 4 years ago.
            I did the install myself, a bit involved but fun.

            Comment


            • #8
              One of the many things TRIUMPH nailed was using the Stromberg Emissions Carburettors on the U.S. market TR250 and TR6. Very difficult to surpass their performance in those applications. Cheap and reliable for 100K+ miles with very little maintenance.

              If you're keeping the engine original they warrant renewing if aged. Deviations from these won't enhance the value, and may degrade it. The engine in stock form is not limited by these carburetors one iota.

              Bringing the power up to TR5 / early TR6 P.I. territory is another kettle of fish.

              Tom

              Comment


              • #9
                Curious, how much does the Patton kit cost for the whole enchilada assuming you are staring with stock ZS’ and mechanical fuel pump and you do the work yourself?
                I72 Pimento w/overdrive

                Comment


                • rgauthier
                  rgauthier commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Almost two grand. Based on the feed back from my original post maybe I should send my carbs to “Poolboy” first.

              • #10
                WOW!
                www.pattonmachine.com/TBI-Pricing.htm
                Walt
                CC80954U '72 TR6 original condition/sold 16.500.
                poolboy rebuilt the Z-S Carbs. Philstr6 rebuilt both rear hubs.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by SapphireBlue72 View Post
                  Yaba daba doo. I appreciate my ZS’ even more now.
                  I72 Pimento w/overdrive

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by SapphireBlue72 View Post
                    Right in there with a set of Weber DCOES ( mid-way between good used Italians and new Spanish ) with manifold and linkage.

                    Last year I got a full setup comprising (3) Italian 40DCOE151s, Cannon manifold, linkage and air cleaners ( not K&Ns though ) for $800. Considering I've put 125,000 miles and counting on a set of Italians (2) generations earlier they should last for the duration, any duration. There are some who've picked them up for far less, the silver lining of Webers' coy nature which generates a steady supply of castoffs from the frustrated.

                    Still a deal for old school tinkerers who hanker after TR5+ performance on their Federal TR6s and TR250s. All it takes is a head shave and CP cam in addition.

                    Tom

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by SapphireBlue72 View Post
                      Considering it's basically a complete engineered kit specifically for a TR6 the price really isn't that bad. I added TBI to my old motorhome and spent more than that with me having to source all of the components and find someone to do the programming AND figure out how to do it!

                      Brad

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                      • #14
                        Let’s see.... a few hundred versus two grand....hmmm
                        I72 Pimento w/overdrive

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Anyone who believes $800 Webers with manifold are a plug and play system, close your eyes and dream on.
                          Such offers are rare and in my opinion to good to be true. If anyone has this, I will be glad to pay for it, even more ! This comparison to an EFI System such as Patton is just wrong. They are completely different systems.
                          Just a quick run-down on an EFI system based on PI bodies (I will put the Euros in Dollars)
                          - ECU - $1000 (DIY Megasquirt substract $500)
                          - PI Bodies overhauled and modified -$1000 (if you already have the PI Bodies, substract $500)
                          - Swirlpot, Pump, Sensors, Ignition - $600
                          - Small stuff - $400
                          Jochem
                          Flying Dutchman drives: TR6 - 1973 - 56/11 - CF1xxxxUO - J-OD - Kent 280° - EMU Black - Phoenix - 205/70 on 7x15

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                          Patton Machine Throttle Body Injection

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