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  • Cylinder wall condition-what to do next

    I’m kind of scared to ask what you think of the condition of the pictured cylinder walls. I need some direction/options.

    Long story short:
    Got the car in 2015 with what was supposed to be a ‘refreshed’ engine.

    The oil consumption was always high since I got it. It consumes a quart every 180-200 miles.. It’s not a smoker but smoke is evident when foot is off the accelerator at high RPM then pressing it again.

    Figuring that the rings needed to properly seat, I let it go and enjoyed the car. The engine, in my opinion, ran OK, not great.

    Plug 3 was always fouled and I used an anti fouler extension on the plug

    Oil is always black indicating ‘blow by’. It does not smell like gasoline.

    Compression was consistent across cylinders but was higher when wet.

    I finally had the guts to pull the head and take a look, hoping that perhaps a Grant oil control ring was not installed properly and/or the valve guides were worn. I was hoping to flex hone the cylinders in situ, re-ring, and get the head sorted.

    I was dismayed to find the cylinder walls for #3 and #4 to be pitted and horizontally scored. What would cause this?

    I’m guessing a flex hone won’t be effective.

    Thanks,
    Anthony





    Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4
    Anthony
    ’76 TR6
    Westchester County, NY

    Carbs by Poolboy
    Good Parts: Rear hubs, adjustable TA brackets

    https://triumph-tr6.wixsite.com/triumphtr6

  • #2
    Ouch. That will probably have to be bored and sleeved if not a replacement block may be in order. Looks too deep for even .020 over and then you would need new pistons.
    I72 Pimento w/overdrive

    Comment


    • #3
      Did the engine sit up for a long period of time without being run, Anthony ?
      Are the scars at about the same depth in both 3 and 4 cylinders ?
      Thinking maybe piston rings rusted and got stuck to the walls.
      Driving a 1973 TR6
      Doing ZS carb repairs
      email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree with Lou & Ken. Looks to me like you've got a block pull in your near future. Forget the honing job. Best to find a good machinist locally and get his opinion on whether or not he can bore over enough to eliminate the problems. Anyway, you're looking at new pistons & rings at the very least. Your local car club group may have some good recommendations on a machinist. I'm betting the "refresh" was not a comprehensive job.

        Cheers,
        Wolf
        76 TR6 CF58170UO (The Lady)
        72 TR6 CC80068UO (The Slut)
        68 TR250 CD4893L (retirement project)

        Comment


        • #5
          I recall the previous owner saying the car sat for a few years but “the block cylinder bores and crankshaft journals measured out within standard tolerances”.

          The scar in the 3rd cylinder looks/feels deeper than 4, but not as widespread. Its an inch or so. The scars in 4 wrap around the entire cylinder wall and exhibits more pitting.

          I found.a couple of machine shops that were recommended to me by the local TR community members. However, they are an hour or so away. Having never needed to get a re-bore/rebuild, do I show them the pictures and discuss or do you think I need to bring the block? Also, what questions should I ask the machinist?

          I’m kind of surprised I put on nearly 6000 miles over the last 4 years and she still ran with this

          I’m feeling kind of bummed out but then again it will be an interesting path forward.

          Thanks for your guidance,

          Anthony
          Last edited by aad; 10-16-2019, 09:38 PM.
          Anthony
          ’76 TR6
          Westchester County, NY

          Carbs by Poolboy
          Good Parts: Rear hubs, adjustable TA brackets

          https://triumph-tr6.wixsite.com/triumphtr6

          Comment


          • #6
            Pictures are always nice, but the block has to come out anyway. Any machinist that I know would probably give you an opinion based on the pictures but would qualify it by saying they'd need to see it in person to be sure and give you a final answer. JMHO.

            I think the main thing to discuss is whether or not it can be machined vs. re-sleeved. Certainly estimated cost and duration, or time frame,would be foremost on my mind.

            Cheers,

            Wolf


            76 TR6 CF58170UO (The Lady)
            72 TR6 CC80068UO (The Slut)
            68 TR250 CD4893L (retirement project)

            Comment


            • #7
              By 'depth' Anthony, I meant vertical depth from the top of the cylinder..Since 3 & 4 travel in sync, like 1 & 6 do and like 2 & 5 do, 3 and 4 would be resting at the same depth during those 'few years' the PO told you about.
              If the scars are at about the same depth from the top, that would lead me to suspect the rusted, stuck rings scenario.
              The machine shop would need to see the engine block...or you'd need to supply them with some measurements using a 'hole' gauge; but since the shop is only an hour away and since it sure looks like the cylinders will probably need over boring regardless, I'd say at a minimum, plan on stripping the block and bringing them the empty block and crankshaft if you're going to do the reassembly yourself.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by poolboy; 10-16-2019, 10:52 PM.
              Driving a 1973 TR6
              Doing ZS carb repairs
              email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Ken, Ah, yes, the vertical depth is around the same supporting your theory.
                Anthony
                ’76 TR6
                Westchester County, NY

                Carbs by Poolboy
                Good Parts: Rear hubs, adjustable TA brackets

                https://triumph-tr6.wixsite.com/triumphtr6

                Comment


                • #9
                  I had mine bored out .60. That is the most it can go. After three years still runs great

                  Norm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've seen worse Anthony, I would be kind of annoyed with the PO. How could he tell that clearances were ok without pulling the head? Anyway, I,m in Westchester and finishing up a total restore. I used a couple of shops for things, contact me anytime. I'm in lower Westchester.

                    Anthony
                    1976 TR6 originally white now Porsche Voodoo Blue
                    Frame off resto started May 2015
                    Tshirts and TA boxes replaced
                    Diff braced and reinforced
                    Engine and head rebuilt
                    Header and Intake ported
                    SS exhaust
                    Floors repaired, new metal at rear bumper mounting points
                    New Rockers
                    AAW wiring - GM alternator
                    Complete suspension and brake rebuild, poly bushings

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I had to have 2 cylinders sleeved on my 250 engine. I knew 1 for sure as you could feel it with your finger nail. 2nd was a surprise and it had to go .040 over in addition. As it’s the matching engine to that car, I chose to spend the $$. It really wasn’t terrible. If you’re set on using that block, I’m sure it’s saveable. Otherwise as others have noted, might be cheaper to find a decent used engine.
                      So much rust, so little time

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Anthony, Nice to know that you are near. I’ll reach out at some point for recommendations etc. And yes, I am a bit annoyed at PO’s representations. I’m pretty sure the head was off given the state of the head gasket. It looked new and the head came off without too much drama. I have a feeling that he was well aware of the issue. He also claimed the head was redone with new valve guides etc. I also took a look at the lifters and a number were pitted as were the respective cam lobes. I’m afraid to know what the condition the crank is. A total rebuild may be (is) in my future,

                        Tr250 (Todd?), thanks for the sharing your experience. I’ll keep an eye out for a decent engine and try to figure out the best way forward.

                        Anthony
                        ’76 TR6
                        Westchester County, NY

                        Carbs by Poolboy
                        Good Parts: Rear hubs, adjustable TA brackets

                        https://triumph-tr6.wixsite.com/triumphtr6

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          PM me and I will give you my contact info.
                          1976 TR6 originally white now Porsche Voodoo Blue
                          Frame off resto started May 2015
                          Tshirts and TA boxes replaced
                          Diff braced and reinforced
                          Engine and head rebuilt
                          Header and Intake ported
                          SS exhaust
                          Floors repaired, new metal at rear bumper mounting points
                          New Rockers
                          AAW wiring - GM alternator
                          Complete suspension and brake rebuild, poly bushings

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have a couple late engines and a couple 71 engines. One of the 71s has the head off so inspection is quite easy. Prior to pulling the head the compression was really except 1 cylinder. Didn’t do the wet test. Anyway I have several if you can’t find one up there
                            So much rust, so little time

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Appreciate that! I will certainly let you know if things don’t work out here.
                              Anthony
                              ’76 TR6
                              Westchester County, NY

                              Carbs by Poolboy
                              Good Parts: Rear hubs, adjustable TA brackets

                              https://triumph-tr6.wixsite.com/triumphtr6

                              Comment

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