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  • Can't Shift

    Hi everyone,

    Well it's been 850 miles in the last 10 days. Pretty confident that I've got my coil and fuel system problems remedied.

    But...

    Car has been getting progressively more difficult to shift. Especially the downshift to second. Stop lights are almost impossible. I was just out for a drive and was stopped - couldn't get the vehicle into any gear. Had to shut the engine off to shift into first.

    If I depress the clutch pedal all the way to the floor it does disengage the clutch. But I do only have about half an inch of play before I start to engage. But now at this point it's almost impossible to get the car into gear in 1st and 2nd. 3rd and 4th are fine as long as I'm moving. If I'm sitting still it's very difficult to get it into any gear at all.

    I've tried to check the gear oil but the damn plug is frozen solid. I'm headed to the parts store now to see if I can get a better wrench for it. But other than that any ideas or suggestions for me?

    Tony
    New to the British auto world.
    No qualifications - old school shadetree mechanic...just enough knowledge to be dangerous!
    1973 TR6, ZS carbs, Pertronix ignition (for now)
    1973 Ford Bronco, 302 V8
    1952 Ford 8N tractor
    ...they keep me busy!

  • #2
    First thing I would check are the hydraulics for low fluid or leaks. If low, of course add and bleed and than try to find out why you were low. If the hydraulics seem ok then it could be a broken clutch fork in the bell housing. Hope it’s not that because you will be pulling the transmission.
    1972. J Type Overdrive
    Fan Eliminator. PB Carbs
    RG Hubs. Poly Bushings
    RG Trailing Arm Brackets. Fidanza 9Ib Flywheel
    Addco Rear Sway Bar. Gear Reduction Starter

    Comment


    • #3
      8 (EIGHT) Point (NOT 6 nor 12 nor 16), 7/16", 3/8 drive socket fits the square fill plug on the left side of gearbox.
      Works from below with ratchet.
      Do not succumb to the temptation of using vice grips, that will make it worse.

      Try bleeding the clutch hydraulic fluid to remove possible air in line.
      You can open the bottom bled screw, let it gravity drain as you add new fluid from the master cylinder.
      Last edited by SapphireBlue72; 09-22-2019, 03:53 PM.
      Walt
      CC80954U '72 TR6 original condition/sold 16.500.
      poolboy rebuilt the Z-S Carbs. Philstr6 rebuilt both rear hubs.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Shadetree View Post
        Hi everyone,

        Well it's been 850 miles in the last 10 days. Pretty confident that I've got my coil and fuel system problems remedied.

        But...

        Car has been getting progressively more difficult to shift. Especially the downshift to second. Stop lights are almost impossible. I was just out for a drive and was stopped - couldn't get the vehicle into any gear. Had to shut the engine off to shift into first.

        If I depress the clutch pedal all the way to the floor it does disengage the clutch. But I do only have about half an inch of play before I start to engage. But now at this point it's almost impossible to get the car into gear in 1st and 2nd. 3rd and 4th are fine as long as I'm moving. If I'm sitting still it's very difficult to get it into any gear at all.

        I've tried to check the gear oil but the damn plug is frozen solid. I'm headed to the parts store now to see if I can get a better wrench for it. But other than that any ideas or suggestions for me?

        Tony
        It's not likely low oil in the gear box, but check it to satisfy yourself. Failure to shift into gear with the engine running usually means the clutch is not disengaging, the reasons being any of several. Rather than listing them all, you'll want to visit the buckeye triumph website and see all of them on "CLUTCHES".

        Dick

        Comment


      • #5
        I had something similar - the clutch pedal got "loose" and shifting was difficult with so little clutch engagement. The pedal then bound. I pressed pretty hard and there was a pop and no clutch. Had a great time driving home doing no clutch shifting, and props for the gear reduction starter that got the car going at lights from dead stop!

        Pulled the slave first (as it's the easiest) and found the spring was broken and crunched up inside. My guess is a bad spring? New slave cylinder solved the problem.

        For the transmission nut, file the flats straight if rounded. A 12mm box wrench may work.

        Edit: Checked my maintenance notes and while I pulled the slave, the failure was in the master cylinder. That was 2011. The note says "bent internal rod which locked it up". Memory's fuzzy, but I think there is a metal cup that's supposed to retain the spring loaded rod, and the rod came out of the cup. So it was a new master, not slave cylinder that was replaced. Sorry.
        Last edited by BEB73; 09-23-2019, 12:21 PM.

        Comment


        • #6
          After checking the fluid in the clutch master cylinder, get under the car on the driver’s side and check for at least 1/2” of movement on the slave cylinder rod as someone pushes the clutch in and lates it out.

          Do that test and report back, we’ll go from there.
          I72 Pimento w/overdrive

          Comment


          • #7
            Thanks everyone. I just got home and checked the slave cylinder. I had bled it and refilled it only three weeks ago. It's still got plenty of fluid but it's definitely losing some. It's lost about a half inch or so, and that brand new synthetic fluid I put in it now looks pretty fouled up. Dark gray now.

            Tomorrow I'll get the thing up in the air and bleed the system out again, and search for leaks. I searched today for an 8 point socket at every part store I could get to but no one had one. I'll keep at it. Hey SapphireBlue72 how did you know I was reaching for the vise grips? Hahahaha.

            If I don't find anything obvious I'll swap in a new slave cylinder per BEB73 - I'd never make it up my mountain if I had the same issue as you did. My evening reading will be the link dicta advised.

            One thing: I note that there is an adjustment nut on the piston rod under the car that the slave cylinder fluid feeds to. If I adjust that nut so then I get a little more play in the clutch pedal, which direction do I turn it? At this point I have to completely depress the pedal against the firewall to disengage the clutch. If I lift my foot off the firewall even half an inch the clutch begins to engage. If I adjust that nut and tighten it - or loosen it - will I gain a little bit of slack?
            New to the British auto world.
            No qualifications - old school shadetree mechanic...just enough knowledge to be dangerous!
            1973 TR6, ZS carbs, Pertronix ignition (for now)
            1973 Ford Bronco, 302 V8
            1952 Ford 8N tractor
            ...they keep me busy!

            Comment


            • SapphireBlue72
              SapphireBlue72 commented
              Editing a comment
              Had to order 8 pt socket from Amazon, about $12.
              This is not your problem, so there's time to order one.
              It's also helpful for the diff plug & engine drain plug.

          • #8
            Originally posted by lfmTR4 View Post
            After checking the fluid in the clutch master cylinder, get under the car on the driver’s side and check for at least 1/2” of movement on the slave cylinder rod as someone pushes the clutch in and lates it out.

            Do that test and report back, we’ll go from there.
            Will do! Hopefully my boy comes with me tomorrow so I can run that test.
            New to the British auto world.
            No qualifications - old school shadetree mechanic...just enough knowledge to be dangerous!
            1973 TR6, ZS carbs, Pertronix ignition (for now)
            1973 Ford Bronco, 302 V8
            1952 Ford 8N tractor
            ...they keep me busy!

            Comment


            • #9
              That pushrod with the adjustment might be an indication that the PO had the problem and sought to compensate with that pushrod, because the original push rod was not and needed not to be adjustable.
              Another clue would be if you see the pushrod attached to any hole other than the middle hole in the clutch shaft's arm.
              Last edited by poolboy; 09-22-2019, 08:41 PM.
              Driving a 1973 TR6
              Doing ZS carb repairs
              email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                That pushrod with the adjustment might be an indication that the PO had the problem and sought to compensate with that pushrod, because the original push rod was not and needed not to be adjustable.
                Another clue would be if you see the pushrod attached to any hole other than the middle hole in the clutch shaft's arm.
                Thanks poolboy
                I was looking at Moss Motors and saw that there are multiple options for a new clutch master cylinder. Various bore sizes. They sell .70 bore, 3/4 bore, etc. What should I choose?
                New to the British auto world.
                No qualifications - old school shadetree mechanic...just enough knowledge to be dangerous!
                1973 TR6, ZS carbs, Pertronix ignition (for now)
                1973 Ford Bronco, 302 V8
                1952 Ford 8N tractor
                ...they keep me busy!

                Comment


                • #11
                  For a 73, the .70" is what I'd get if I weren't going to rebuild it and if you replace the master, be sure to at least rebuild the slave.
                  Driving a 1973 TR6
                  Doing ZS carb repairs
                  email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

                  Comment


                  • Shadetree
                    Shadetree commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you.

                • #12
                  If the slave is on the correct side of the transmission, quite often that adjustable rod is the P.O.’s attempt to compensate for a sheared fork pin long enough to sell the car. I hope that’s not the reason in your case. The slave is self adjusting with the internal spring, an adjustable rod does nothing in moving the clutch release point so there’s no other reason for it.
                  I72 Pimento w/overdrive

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by lfmTR4 View Post
                    If the slave is on the correct side of the transmission, quite often that adjustable rod is the P.O.’s attempt to compensate for a sheared fork pin long enough to sell the car. I hope that’s not the reason in your case. The slave is self adjusting with the internal spring, an adjustable rod does nothing in moving the clutch release point so there’s no other reason for it.
                    Well, looks like you and poolboy are - sadly - on the right track. PO now officially qualifies for the auto mechanics version of the Mickey Mouse Club!

                    I get 3/4 inch of travel measured at the end of the pushrod. The seals are leaking at the slave, explaining my gradual fluid loss. And the pushrod is attached at the top hole of the clutch shaft arm instead of the center hole, as Ken mentioned it should be. Bad news.

                    I read a ton of info off the Buckeye site last night. Another forum I stumbled upon - I don't recall where - suggested disconnecting the slave pushrod and moving the clutch shaft lever clockwise (toward front of car) to note if there's more than one discernable click or engagement stop. I did that and found it difficult to even note one. Buckeye says 2 stops indicate a broken fork pin. So maybe a good sign?

                    I'm replacing master and slave. New pushrod too. But I suspect you gents are about to tell me I need to pull the transmission...
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Shadetree; 09-23-2019, 10:19 PM.
                    New to the British auto world.
                    No qualifications - old school shadetree mechanic...just enough knowledge to be dangerous!
                    1973 TR6, ZS carbs, Pertronix ignition (for now)
                    1973 Ford Bronco, 302 V8
                    1952 Ford 8N tractor
                    ...they keep me busy!

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      From what you describe, including discolored fluid, it sounds like hydraulics (master or slave) to me.

                      I was advised to service both of mine, if I dug into one.

                      My bench rebuilds are still holding.
                      '74 TR6 CF13007U aka "Mr. T"
                      Custom Blue (Delft-Like) and New Tan (Formerly Mallard and New Tan)
                      Points, Ballast Bypassed, Bosch Blue Coil, Moss Cobalt Wires, Champion RN12YC plugs.
                      Peaks and tweaks, but the spirit of Original
                      Redlines always.
                      My wife is the Driver, I'm just the Mechanic....

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Originally posted by tr6harris View Post
                        From what you describe, including discolored fluid, it sounds like hydraulics (master or slave) to me.

                        I was advised to service both of mine, if I dug into one.

                        My bench rebuilds are still holding.
                        Hope that's it! Parts should be here by the weekend. I'll let ya know.
                        New to the British auto world.
                        No qualifications - old school shadetree mechanic...just enough knowledge to be dangerous!
                        1973 TR6, ZS carbs, Pertronix ignition (for now)
                        1973 Ford Bronco, 302 V8
                        1952 Ford 8N tractor
                        ...they keep me busy!

                        Comment

                        Can't Shift

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