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Pertronix back to Points ??

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  • #16
    I’ve had the Crane XR700 in my ‘74 for 27 years now and it’s rock solid. It feels like new points every drive.

    Many of my local club members have found tne Pertronix to be unreliable. We thinks it’s due to the heat inside the dizzy. Electronic circuits don’t like heat, and the dizzy bolted to the block is too hot for electronic circuit reliability. Pretty simple.

    The Crane only has the sensor and shutter inside the dizzy. The circuity is heat sinked and lives well away from the engine block. There’s that flat spot on the inner fender across from the dizzy that’s a perfect mounting point for the Crane control unit.

    However if I didn’t have the reliable Crane unit I would be on points too. But it would be another “to do” item each season.
    1974 TR-6 Logic Overdrive

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    • #17
      I may not be the only one who would want to get a breaker plate like the one Jim bought from Advanced Distributors as a backup or replacement for a Pertronix.. Emailed Jeff and he responded promptly. You can't buy the individual parts for the $35 he charges.

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      • #18
        I also had an Allison-Crane unit that worked flawlessly for over 20 years. Then a vac. advance was added and the movement of the plate caused the wire from the detector block break. Even though it was supposed to have a life time warranty, the current owner refused to honor it. I returned to points and haven't regretted it.
        Berry

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        • #19
          Decided I, too needed a backup plate. Rob at British Vacuum sells the complete plate for $39.95 plus $4 shipping. NFI.
          1976 TR-6 BRG - CF57239U
          Carbs by Poolboy
          Rear Camber Kit, Rear Hubs by Goodparts
          Gear Reduction Starter by TSI
          Distributor by British Vacuum

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          • #20
            Well, I pulled out the Pertronix and installed the new plate / points and guess what...Tillie won't run!

            I do have an AAW wire harness, so I've been looking closely the wire diagram and there are some differences.

            The pertronix unit has two wires... red and black . Red went to the (pos) on the coil and Black went to the (neg)
            With the pertronix unit the white wire from the power block was connected to the (pos) on the coil and a white brown wire went to the starter solenoid from the (neg) on the coil.

            The points only have one wire going from the (pos) on the coil to the connector on the dizzy...I'm assuming the ground comes from the dizzy chassis.

            At first I left the white wire on the (pos) post...but when I cranked her there was no firing at all. I looked at the AAW diagram and it shows the white on the (neg) post so I changed my white wire to the (neg) thinking that was the problem. Now when I crank the starter she fires about every 3rd revolution but that's it!

            So what am I missing ??
            Jim / NW Ohio
            "Tillie"... a '74 dressed like a '69 / CF14608U
            Blog: www.trippstr6.blogspot.com

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            • #21
              You need not have made any changes to the wire from your harness that fed voltage to your coil....normally that would be a wire that was hot when the ignition key was in the ON position as well as being hot when the ignition key is twisted to the START position. That wire should have been connected to the positive terminal of the coil.
              On the negative terminal of the coil you should have the wire from the distributor rim... that would actually be from the spade on the white plastic terminal block that fits into the slot on the rim of the distributor housing.
              That black wire that's unattached in the picture of what Jeff sent you needs to be connected to one of the screws that you used to mount the 'points plate' to the distributor housing.

              edit...all that I wrote assumes you have a "non ballasted" ignition system and have a 3.0 ohm coil.
              If you have a ballasted ignition and a 1.5 ohm coil, most everything will be the same with the exception of an additional wire to feed the coil when the ignition key is twisted to START..
              Last edited by poolboy; 08-01-2018, 09:14 PM. Reason: Ballasted ignition possible ?
              Driving a 1973 TR6
              Doing ZS carb repairs
              email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

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              • #22
                Thanks Ken...you just turned on the light bulb !!
                Jim / NW Ohio
                "Tillie"... a '74 dressed like a '69 / CF14608U
                Blog: www.trippstr6.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by poolboy View Post
                  You need not have made any changes to the wire from your harness that fed voltage to your coil....normally that would be a wire that was hot when the ignition key was in the ON position as well as being hot when the ignition key is twisted to the START position. That wire should have been connected to the positive terminal of the coil.
                  On the negative terminal of the coil you should have the wire from the distributor rim... that would actually be from the spade on the white plastic terminal block that fits into the slot on the rim of the distributor housing.
                  That black wire that's unattached in the picture of what Jeff sent you needs to be connected to one of the screws that you used to mount the 'points plate' to the distributor housing.

                  edit...all that I wrote assumes you have a "non ballasted" ignition system and have a 3.0 ohm coil.
                  If you have a ballasted ignition and a 1.5 ohm coil, most everything will be the same with the exception of an additional wire to feed the coil when the ignition key is twisted to START..
                  Ken,
                  Yes, I have a non-ballasted system.
                  I moved the "hot" wire back to the (pos) coil connector, and changed the wire going to the dizzy (on the rim of the distributor) over to the (neg) coil connector....still no joy She keeps trying to start but won't catch... The black wire in the photo is connected to the screw holding down the points plate.
                  Jim / NW Ohio
                  "Tillie"... a '74 dressed like a '69 / CF14608U
                  Blog: www.trippstr6.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Maybe you just need to work on resetting the ignition timing.
                    Do you have someone who can try and start the engine while you play around twisting the distributor ?

                    ................
                    Another edit...Jim, you did set the points gap, right ?
                    Last edited by poolboy; 08-01-2018, 09:47 PM. Reason: Points gap question
                    Driving a 1973 TR6
                    Doing ZS carb repairs
                    email kencorsaw"at"aol.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Point gap checked/set and rotor reinstalled...?
                      '74 TR6 CF13007U aka "Mr. T"
                      Custom Blue (Delft-Like) and New Tan (Formerly Mallard and New Tan)
                      Points, Ballast Bypassed, Bosch Blue Coil, Moss Cobalt Wires, Champion RN12YC plugs.
                      Peaks and tweaks, but the spirit of Original
                      Redlines always.
                      My wife is the Driver, I'm just the Mechanic....

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                      • #26
                        Thanks guys, tomorrow I'll try the timing...yep, double checked the point gap and the rotor
                        Jim / NW Ohio
                        "Tillie"... a '74 dressed like a '69 / CF14608U
                        Blog: www.trippstr6.blogspot.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tripp74 View Post
                          and a white brown wire went to the starter solenoid from the (neg) on the coil.
                          The white/brown wire should go from the solenoid to the positive terminal of the coil. If you have it and the short white/black jumper from the dizzy on the same terminal of the coil, it's not going to work and might burn the points.

                          As far as I can see neither the standard AAW diagrams or the Powerblock diagram has the coil terminals labeled, but on both diagrams, the positive terminal is on the left.
                          R3
                          Jim Herter Copperas Cove, TX
                          Original Owner ֍ 1970 TR6 ֎ CC 50990 LO
                          VDU 506H

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I maybe should add that the white/brown wire is not needed with your non-ballasted coil, though it can normally be left connected. But if you have a gear reduction starter and you're not certain it has the proper diode configuration, you ought to disconnect or remove it.
                            Last edited by RatRidgeRoadster; 08-01-2018, 10:44 PM.
                            R3
                            Jim Herter Copperas Cove, TX
                            Original Owner ֍ 1970 TR6 ֎ CC 50990 LO
                            VDU 506H

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RatRidgeRoadster View Post
                              The white/brown wire should go from the solenoid to the positive terminal of the coil. If you have it and the short white/black jumper from the dizzy on the same terminal of the coil, it's not going to work and might burn the points.

                              As far as I can see neither the standard AAW diagrams or the Powerblock diagram has the coil terminals labeled, but on both diagrams, the positive terminal is on the left.
                              Thanks Jim...for some reason I thought the positive was on the right ! That explains a lot ! I'm going to mark my diagram for future....
                              I've been opening the battery disconnect between testing, so hopefully nothing was damaged.
                              Jim / NW Ohio
                              "Tillie"... a '74 dressed like a '69 / CF14608U
                              Blog: www.trippstr6.blogspot.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                On my car, the orientation of the coil (+ to the right) is determined by the short lead from the static suppressor that goes to the positive terminal and puts the Pertronix label facing the engine block.

                                If I have it right, to replace the Pertronix with points, the low tension wire from the terminal block goes to the negative terminal on the coil and the wire from the fuse block that bypassed the ballast resistor goes to the positive terminal, and that should do it.

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                                Pertronix back to Points ??

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