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1976 Alternator Upgrade

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  • drewstr6
    started a topic 1976 Alternator Upgrade

    1976 Alternator Upgrade

    I upgraded my '76 TR6 Alternator from a Lucas model to a 13107N Model that many people have used. I also recently installed the Patton TBI and plugged in my laptop to datalog a driving session. I am getting below battery voltage which seems to indicate that the alternator isn't charging the battery while driving. I have read over quite a few post on the subject but still need help. I disconnected the alternator plug from the new alternator and checked the 2 wires in the plug to see if they were getting any power. The larger brown wire is getting 14.6 or so, but the smaller brown/yellow is at 0. The extra brown wire (that most people just tie off) is showing about 14.5 or so. I am trying to figure out why the smaller brown/yellow wire isn't showing any power, and if this is the reason that the alternator may not be charging the battery. The diagram from the DM Handbook shows 4 brown wires at the block between the battery and starter - however, I only have 3 wires. Any help would be appreciated - electrical is not my forte. Here are a few pictures of what I have:


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  • brosky
    replied
    OUCH.....no still alive Lou and thanks for asking. I've been doing a lot of new things and the car and a lot of my older hobbies have taken a back seat to the new stuff. I guess that's what happens when you finally retire and start to do some of the things that you never had time for. Spring is coming and I'm slowly climbing back into the TR6 and golf saddles once again, so you'll see more of me in the next month or so.

    It's always good to be back in friendly territory with the great people that populate this forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • lfmTR4
    replied
    Paul! Where the heck have you been? Nice to hear from you, I’ve heard that people aren’t here because they passed....

    Originally posted by brosky View Post
    You could check out my installation as well as adding the second wire to the alternator at the end of the page:

    Leave a comment:


  • brosky
    replied
    You could check out my installation as well as adding the second wire to the alternator at the end of the page:

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf76STL
    replied
    Originally posted by lfmTR4 View Post
    You mean you told them it wasn’t out of 1980 Fiesta? How would they know? I think I would try again with a different clerk now that you ‘now what car it came out of. That’s BS on not warranting because it wasn’t in the car it was designed for, the fact is it failed prematurely and they are just looking for excuses.
    I agree Lou. Ask the alternator if it knows what model car it's hooked up to.

    Cheers,

    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • lfmTR4
    replied
    You mean you told them it wasn’t out of 1980 Fiesta? How would they know? I think I would try again with a different clerk now that you ‘now what car it came out of. That’s BS on not warranting because it wasn’t in the car it was designed for, the fact is it failed prematurely and they are just looking for excuses.

    Leave a comment:


  • drewstr6
    replied
    Update: went out for a drive this afternoon and stopped by a FLAPS. Had them test my brand new 13107N Alternator while running and it showed a problem. I went back home and took the alternator off and then took it back to the store to have them test it. Sure enough, it failed. RockAuto will not replace it because I used it on a car other than what it was designed for - 1980 Ford Fiesta - so I am going to try to find one tomorrow to install and try again. Hopefully, this means that the wiring is good and I don't have to mess with all that. The battery is a new Optima, so I know it is good. I will update again once I reinstall the new one.

    Leave a comment:


  • lfmTR4
    replied
    You while you're out, take it to the FLAPS and have them load test it. They can do the alternator with the engine running if the clerk knows what he is doing. You can add to the load by turning on headlights, blower, etc. With the engine off they can test the battery.

    Leave a comment:


  • drewstr6
    replied
    Cleaned all of the connections and everything is tight. I'm going to take it for a ride when I get home today and see if that helps. I did order the new positive battery cable and the new alternator connector if it doesn't. I'm not exactly sure how the TBI system reads the battery voltage, but there is a spot in the data-logging screen that shows it. When I sent it to Rick, he could see there the voltage was a bit low.
    Here is a sample shot of the log that it records:

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  • tr6harris
    replied
    Battery and Alternator sounds fine to me.

    13.6 volts is strong (12.8v) is typical. 13.6 tells me that the alternator has no need to charge with the battery at that level.

    I'd positively remove and clean all connections, especially the brown wires and the terminal block along the positive battery cable. (if not already)

    I dont think changing the connector will make any difference....

    CLEAN and tight is the order of the day..

    How/where is the Patton gadget connected to read voltage?
    Last edited by tr6harris; 01-09-2019, 10:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • drewstr6
    replied
    You are correct on the 13107 rating. I thought the same thing - that I could just hook it up and use the existing wiring without any issues. The IGN bulb doesn't stay on. I hooked it up to a battery charger and let it sit overnight. I did check the battery by itself last night (optimal) and it read about 13.6 without the car running. I started it up and checked it again with the car running and it was about the same - 13.4-13.6. It doesn't look like the alternator is is charging. The voltmeter in the car is showing about 12v. Since I installed the Patton TBI, I have data-logged it a couple of times and it consistently reads lower than it should - around 12v each time. Rick thought I must have something else running since it looks to be running just on battery power. I have not run it yet with the headlights on, but I do have an electric fan that kicks on. The voltage can affect the TBI system and the last time I ran the car, it ran poorly - stumbled quite a bit. It had never done that before. I am going to replace the alternator plug this weekend and run a second 8 gauge from the extra plug to the starter to see if it makes a difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • tr6harris
    replied
    If Irecall the 13107 alternator is rated at 55A, the original Lucas at 35A.

    My 13107 is on the stock harness, no mods.

    Without reading the voltage across the battery at rest and when running, I am not convinced that your alternator is not charging.

    Is the IGN bulb glowing when running or something?

    Leave a comment:


  • lfmTR4
    replied
    As posted below. I ran a second 8 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter as in my car, it goes from there to the battery . I taped the two together to look as one harness.

    Leave a comment:


  • drewstr6
    replied
    Thanks for the additional info. I went ahead and ordered a new a new plug kit for the alternator from Moss just to make sure that isn't the problem. I also ordered a new positive battery wire since mine didn't appear to be in the best shape. I cleaned each of the terminals to make sure I am getting good connections. From what I have read, adding the second wire as tr6harris indicated seems to be in order with the modern alternator. I can add the wire in the new fitting on the alternator side, but does anyone have any recommendations where might be the best place to wire it in at the other end? Should I splice it in the existing brown wire or completely run the new wire to the block on the positive battery wire pictured below? It looks like I currently have three wires plugged into that block, but there is space for one more.
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  • bartman
    replied
    +1 on Lou's comment. If the Triumph engineers put two heavy wires in the alternator plug for a normal output alternator, then that means the current outflow from the alternator can be challenging to the wire gauge used on a single wire. If you upgrade the alternator, you are potentially passing more current through the brown wire than it was intended to handle. I posted the chart below before - be sure you have enough wire for the job (hint - look at the size of the wire going to the starter!)


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